Reform MSPs walk out of parliament in protest against independence debate

Reform MSPs have walked out of the Holyrood chamber in protest against a debate about Scottish independence.

The party's Scottish leader Malcolm Offord, who had tried to have the debate cancelled because it related to non-devolved matters, described it as an insult and a waste of time.

He then led his MSPs out of the chamber, to jeers from the rest of the parliament.

It came after First Minister John Swinney tabled a non-binding motion asserting Scotland's right to decide its constitutional future - which passed with support from Labour and the Greens.

Offord told MSPs: "This debate is an insult to the Scottish electorate who expect politicians to deal with serious issues in their communities."

Announcing that he would withdraw his amendment and leave the chamber, Offord said: "We did not come into this parliament to waste our time on vanity projects."

Scottish Greens co-leader Ross Greer quipped that he hoped a nearby pub had extra staff on this afternoon, adding: "They may be busy."

Presiding Officer Kenneth Gibson described Reform's "antics" as "a gross discourtesy to all members of the chamber".

Earlier, Swinney told parliament that his motion was a "vital question to debate".

It came as MSPs debated a motion from Swinney which declared: "Scotland is a nation that has a right to decide its own future."

This was passed by 84 votes to 18, with the support of Green and Labour MSPs and opposition from the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats.

Michael Marra, the new leader of Scottish Labour, was among those backing the motion although he said it was more about SNP internal politics and less about practical action to make people's lives better.

His amendment, which was passed, retained Swinney's statement but added that efforts should be stepped up to tackle child poverty.

During the debate, Marra said there had "always been a route to another referendum".

That route was to "build a consensus – the settled will of the Scottish people – and make it overwhelming".

But he said he believed Scotland "can be a fairer and stronger nation without being a separate state".

He added: "I don't believe we have to risk our currency, our defence, our markets and our budgets to deliver a more equal and just Scotland."

Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay said the SNP should accept the result of the "once in a generation" 2014 referendum - which saw Scotland vote by 55% to 45% to remain part of the UK.

"The SNP say that Scotland should decide. We did decide, more than two million Scots said no, and thank goodness for that," he said.

Swinney insisted that a simple majority of pro-independence MSPs represented a mandate for a referendum.

"My party believes it is for the people of Scotland to decide when there is an independence referendum."

Saying that Scotland needs the "fresh start" of independence, he told MSPs the "fundamental right to decide our nation's future remains".

Swinney also raised the demographic change in Scotland since the last independence referendum.

He claimed that by 2029 there would be more than one million people in Scotland who did not have the opportunity to vote because of their age, and by 2030 the youngest voters would not even have been born in 2014.

He added that Scotland's place in the UK and the world "had changed beyond recognition" after Brexit.

Opposition MSPs noted that Swinney had said before May's Holyrood election that an SNP majority was the best way to secure a mandate for an independence referendum.

The party fell short of that target, but the SNP and Greens ended up with 73 MSPs, increasing the pro-independence majority by one.

At the same time, the proportion of voters who backed pro-independence parties fell significantly to about 41%, down from about 50% in 2021.

The Holyrood debate came two weeks after Prime Minister Andy Burnham told MPs that both in Scotland and Northern Ireland a border poll would be considered if there was a clear consensus and public opinion had changed.

That prompted John Swinney to write to him, asking for a meeting to discuss how such a mechanism could be enshrined in law.

But in his reply, Burnham said no consensus currently existed and he repeated his view that another referendum was "off limits" while he focused on growing the economy and cost of living pressures.

Burnham's letter said Northern Ireland and Scotland had different historical experiences and distinct constitutional arrangements.

The Supreme Court ruled in 2022 that the Scottish Parliament cannot hold an independence referendum without Westminster's consent.

Labour does not normally vote with the SNP on independence-related matters.

They don't support independence or another referendum and that's not what they voted for today.

Instead, they sided with the SNP and the Greens on the principle that any decision on independence or continued union is for the Scottish public to make and that there is a route to revisiting the question.

As Labour's new Scottish leader Michael Marra put it, those who support independence need to build a case, build a coalition and build a consensus until their vision is the "settled will" of the Scottish people.

Marra thinks he is stating the obvious. He is also signalling an intention to work more cooperatively in this parliament and not to oppose for the sake of opposition.

The SNP consider his referendum position as a more meaningful shift that gives their independence campaign some momentum ahead of their party conference next month.

But restating a principle that was established in the 2014 referendum does not actually make much difference in practical terms unless there's a decisive and sustained shift in public opinion in favour of independence.