Reform defector reveals she voted Remain in Brexit vote and wants Welsh independence

A Member of the Senedd who quit Reform to join Plaid Cymru says she would back Welsh independence if a vote were held and has revealed she voted Remain in the 2016 Brexit referendum.

Sarah Cooper-Lesadd, one of 34 Reform MSs elected in May's Senedd election, defected to Plaid on Tuesday.

She told BBC's Walescast that her former party was "completely chaotic" and was "falling apart at the seams".

Her defection - which came on the same day Dan Thomas stepped down as Reform's Welsh leader - means Plaid now has 44 members in Cardiff Bay, and Reform as the largest opposition party has 33 seats.

Thomas quit on Tuesday after he was arrested over the weekend on suspicion of assault and controlling or coercive behaviour. He was bailed pending further enquiries, and denies doing anything wrong.

Cooper-Lesadd said on Wednesday she had approached Plaid Cymru after a "period of deliberation".

"It's been a journey for me since coming to the Senedd, it's come after a period of thinking about it, so it has been a while," she said.

She described speeches by Reform Caerdydd Penarth MS Joe Martin in June, including one making allegations about Sudanese asylum seekers, as "flashpoints" for her.

In the speech he implied asylum seekers from the country posed a safety risk.

Martin's words, Cooper-Lesadd said, "just completely did not chime with the type of person that I am and the values that I have".

"There were other several things. The party's completely chaotic, it's falling apart at the seams, it really, really is."

She said she felt uncomfortable with some of the language used by Reform members.

Cooper-Lesadd, a former Conservative, was elected as a Reform MS for the Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg constituency in May's election.

Her swap to Plaid Cymru means she has been in three political parties since 2024.

During the interview, Cooper-Lesadd was also asked about her view on independence, and further powers for the Welsh government, two things that Plaid Cymru has campaigned on.

"I support the ability of people to choose their own future, and that is self-determination and Plaid have said, that it will happen when the time is right.

"I would vote yes, because, I have seen increasingly the fact that Wales is short-changed in so many different ways, but we aren't there yet.

"The nation is on a political journey, and I'm on a political journey as well, and it's about bringing people with us."

The new Plaid MS was also asked about the idea of the UK returning to the European Union.

"I've never, ever spoken about Brexit, and I'll be honest I voted Remain in the referendum and it's been quite difficult for me not to be able to talk about it, and it has damaged our trading relationships. So yes, I absolutely do support that.

"In the public discourse over the last 10 years, we haven't been able to have that debate about the European Union. Even parties such as the Labour Party have struggled to talk about it, because they just get shut down.

"When I came into Reform, I did think that there was a certain element of being a broad church, and that's what I believed.

"It has become extremely narrow, whereas Plaid has a set of values that is values-based, and that's what I believe in."

The Senedd, in common with the other parliaments in the UK, has no requirement for members to face a by-election if they leave the party they represented when they were elected.

"What I would say is that my work with my constituents doesn't end today, I'll continue fighting for them, continue standing up for them.

"I appreciate [Reform's point of view], but I'm going to keep on fighting for people in my area and working extremely hard."

Reform MS Llŷr Powell told BBC Radio Wales Breakfast on Wednesday that the party had "made a lot of effort to try to communicate" with Cooper-Lesadd prior to her decision to leave Reform.

He questioned whether Cooper-Lesadd "fully understood the core values of the party that she was standing for" and the reasons given for her defection.

Responding to her decision on Tuesday, a Reform Wales spokesperson said the party had planned to expel her "as soon as we discovered" she was "in favour of Welsh independence and the break-up of the United Kingdom".

They added: "Her separatist sympathies are not welcome in our party. Our policy on maintaining the Union is clear.

"Plaid are welcome to her, she is now in her third party in two years."

Voters in Bridgend were divided on their local Senedd member switching allegiances, with some supporting her and others calling on her to quit.

Brenda Hayes, 55, said she might have "realised that there's been changes in Reform that you are not comfortable now, because of things that have been done and seen".

"If she feels that strongly, and sees more benefit in going with Plaid, then good for her, I wish her the best of luck."

Lee Robson, 53, voted Plaid Cymru in May but is now a Reform supporter and has "no particular problem with people switching parties, it doesn't bother me".

"People change their opinions and perspectives... that's their business, I vote for the person not the party."

Jeff Worby, 82, took the view that the MS "can't really make her mind up about what she wants to do about her policies".

"You can't just change your mind halfway through the game.

"There should be six month cooling down period [for changing parties after an election], so they know what they're doing."

Additional reporting by Iolo Cheung